FISA: Ready to Rumble?

We've seen lots of hand wringing of late in regard to Obama's most recent position on FISA:

Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) today announced his support for a sweeping intelligence surveillance law that has been heavily denounced by the liberal activists who have fueled the financial engines of his presidential campaign.

It's no surpise really, FISA has been (and continues to be) the favorite pet issue of the liberal/progressive netroots.  The question now is this:  what are we going to do about it?

As I see it, there are a number of options.

OPTION #1:

We could join Republicans in bashing our nominee as a flip-flopper, as some of our more "feline" community members are wont to do.  We could argue for months about whether or not Obama is a) a closet centrist, or b) too liberal to be elected.  We've seen the naysayers make both arguments, sometimes in the same breath.  I'm inclined to think this option is of little value to anyone outside the McCain campaign.

OPTION #2:

Here's a thought:  DO SOMETHING!

Blue America is launching a call tool today to help you get in touch with Senators regarding the FISA bill.   We're trying to make it as easy as possible for everyone to talk with their Senators about the importance of standing up for the constitution, the rule of law -- and standing against telecom immunity.

We have been working hard to put together some tools to make your voice heard -- and there is more to come today.  

This first tool allows you to directly contact Senators to tell them to stand up for the rule of law and vote in favor of the Dodd-Feingold-Leahy amendment.  (That's S.A.5064 to H.R. 6304 which will come up for a vote on July 8th, 2008.)  Not only will this tool help you phone your Senators -- including connecting your call -- but it also gives us the ability to track positions on FISA given your input on what you ascertain during your conversations.

Nice, eh?  The tool is here.  Put up, or shut up.

Next, let's drop both the right and left framing of this issue, and consider what might happen if Dodd-Feingold-Leahy amendment fails, and the FISA bill passes with retroactive immunity for telecoms intact.

Not a happy scenario, but let's try to temper our collective disappointment with the fact that The FISA amendments DO NOT provide immunity for criminal violations.

It is clear not only from the language of the bill (which must be read in the context of other, related statutes to be clearly understood), but also from the legislative history, that there is absolutely no criminal immunity for anyone in these FISA amendments.

While there's some solace in this, it get's better:

Similarly, when the FISA amendments were being addressed in the House during the June 20, 2008 debate, Attorney General Michael B. Mukasey and Director of National Intelligence J.M. McConnell sent Speaker Pelosi a letter for the record analyzing the provisions. This letter stated, among other things, that: "The framework contained in the bill for obtaining retroactive liability protection is narrowly tailored. ... The liability protection provision does not extend to the Government or to Government officials and it does not immunize any criminal conduct."

Wouldn't it be sweet if we could hammer Bush et. al. and the telecom abusers simultaneously?  John Dean posits:

Because this legislation addresses only civil liability, Senator Obama has a unique opportunity to show that his leadership as President would, in fact, bring a change to Washington. Indeed, he can both support the amendments now pending (for the reasons he stated), and make clear that as President he will request that his attorney general determine if criminal actions should be taken for the blatant violations of the criminal law. Actually, he has already said this, but in a larger context.

Since Obama Has Already Declared that He Will Hold the Bush Administration Officials Responsible for their Crimes, He Can Now Have It Both Ways: Support the FISA Amendments and Hold Miscreants Responsible.

My mouth waters at the possibility.  Should the Dodd-Feingold-Leahy amendment fail, this ought be our new course of action.  Get Obama elected, and use our voices to demand accountability.

Let's also consider the realities telecom immunity from civil litigation.  What happens if we can sue in a civil action?  A Washington Post editorial indicates:

...the fact remains that no one can claim with certainty that his or her communications were monitored. The likelihood of prevailing -- or even getting very far -- with such lawsuits is low. The litigation seems aimed as much at using the tools of discovery to dislodge information about what the administration actually did as it is at redressing unknown injuries. The telecommunications companies complied with a government request after being assured, in writing, that the activities had been authorized by the president and deemed lawful by the attorney general. Punishing them by forcing them to endure the cost and hassle of lawsuits would be counterproductive to securing such cooperation in the future, while offering little prospect of a useful outcome.

While I agree with Senator Dodd that we ought not "abandon the rule of law", I also agree that our intelligence agencies need the flexibility to intercept international communications.  

That said, our fundamental concern should be to ensure that adequate protections are in place to prevent infringing on the privacy rights of Americans.  This would necessarily include vigilant court oversight.

On that score, Mr. Obama nailed it the other day when he explained his new position -- "that the issue of the phone companies per se is not one that overrides the security interests of the American people." Mr. Obama said he would be "happy with a system" that "makes sure that we prevent violations of the American people's privacy even if the phone companies are held harmless. The issue was, 'Can we get to the bottom of what's been taking place?' and, most importantly, 'Do we have safeguards in place going into the future so that American's civil liberties are not being violated?' " Those are the right questions, and Mr. Obama gave the right answer.

Look, we may lose the upcoming battle, but take heart:  the War is far from over.



Display:


Tips, thoughts, etc. (2.00 / 3)

Let's keep the bitching and moaning to a minimum, eh?

:)


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 04:47:23 PM EST

Re: Tips, thoughts, etc. (2.00 / 1)

Not a happy scenario, but let's try to temper our collective disappointment with the fact that The FISA amendments DO NOT provide immunity for criminal violations

Wow! so Keith of you to say that. If they are having trouble passing a bill that holds the telcom accountable in civil courts. How did you jump to the conclusion that they would gravitate to criminal accountability?


He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."
by roxfoxy on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 05:27:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips, thoughts, etc. (none / 0)

How did you jump to the conclusion that they would gravitate to criminal accountability?

Uh, what does that mean?  Nobody would have to gravitate anywhere.  If the FISA amendments pass as is, there's no immunity for criminal violations.

Obama has said:

What I would want to do is to have my Justice Department and my Attorney General immediately review the information that's already there and to find out are there inquiries that need to be pursued. I can't prejudge that because we don't have access to all the material right now. I think that you are right, if crimes have been committed, they should be investigated. You're also right that I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch hunt because I think we've got too many problems we've got to solve.

So this is an area where I would want to exercise judgment -- I would want to find out directly from my Attorney General -- having pursued, having looked at what's out there right now -- are there possibilities of genuine crimes as opposed to really bad policies. And I think it's important-- one of the things we've got to figure out in our political culture generally is distinguishing between really dumb policies and policies that rise to the level of criminal activity.

You know, I often get questions about impeachment at town hall meetings and I've said that is not something I think would be fruitful to pursue because I think that impeachment is something that should be reserved for exceptional circumstances. Now, if I found out that there were high officials who knowingly, consciously broke existing laws, engaged in cover-ups of those crimes with knowledge [aforethought], then I think a basic principle of our Constitution is nobody['s] above the law -- and I think that's roughly how I would look at it.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 05:42:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips, thoughts, etc. (none / 0)

Emphasis mine, BTW.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 05:42:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips, thoughts, etc. (none / 0)

"... if I found out that there were high officials who knowingly, consciously broke existing laws, engaged in cover-ups of those crimes with knowledge [aforethought], then I think a basic principle of our Constitution is nobody['s] above the law..."

Just sitting here and looking. Waiting to see if anyone says anything.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 07:55:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips, thoughts, etc. (2.00 / 1)


Do you not see the double talk in there? Let's take this sentence

if I found out that there were high officials who knowingly, consciously broke existing laws, engaged in cover-ups of those crimes with knowledge [aforethought]

Define knowingly. Define consciously broke.

It's a political statement because the new FISA compromise allows everyone to go free if they have a letter from the president and the Attorney General saying this telcom action  was lawful. So think about it.  If you are excused as `it's okay' on one hand. How do you expect then to turn around and say oh it's not okay any longer i.e criminal?

Now unless senator Obama plans to try the President for criminal intent. Everyone else is truly free from any further actions due to the new Fisa.
Nobody ever will go to jail over this.  


He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."
by roxfoxy on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:19:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

January 19th (none / 0)

the pardons for criminal activity roll out.

The bill preempts any prosecution for violation of State wiretapping statutes, both retroactively and for any future gov't induced spying.




Democratic Candidate, US Senate, Wisconsin 2012
by benmasel on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 11:09:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: January 19th (2.00 / 1)

small problem Benmasel  - this NSA act can only be addressed under federal law. Because state has no clue who they tapped to even start an indictment.   It's off limits to them.


He was warmly received by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who called him "a leader that God has blessed us with at this time."
by roxfoxy on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 12:48:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

OMG FOGIV YOU ARE SO WRONG HOW CAN YOU BE SO WRONG??? Barry is just big flopper oN FISA and just wants to win elections!!  I don't care about winning elections just about suing my phone company!!!  Bush listened to my private phone sex!!


by OMG LOLZZ on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 04:58:36 PM EST

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

OMG! I KNOWZ, I TOO WANNA SUE MY PHONE CUZ TELEMARKETERZ IS ACTUALLY OBAMA SPIEZ TRYIN TO SNEEK A PEEK OF PEE PEE.

LOLZZZZZZZ!!!!


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 05:04:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 2)

Thanks for the diary, fogiv.
Despite the campaign's mild claims to the contrary, it looks as if the crimes of the Bush administration are going to be swept under the rug when Obama takes office.

if crimes have been committed, they should be investigated. You're also right that I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch hunt because I think we've got too many problems we've got to solve.

More of the "partisan witch hunt" theory. Sheesh.
They lied about intelligence to get us into a war.
Tortured and murdered innocent people.
Violated the Constitution.
Outed an agent of the CIA.
Politicized the Justice Department and filled it with Heritage Foundation fundies.
Filled important posts with incompetent lackeys, resulting in the ruination of New Orleans, mine collapses and miner deaths and 9/11 workers with respiratory diseases.

Aren't we going to hold anyone accountable for the god awful mess Bush got us into?


by skohayes on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 06:42:33 PM EST

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (none / 0)

I'm actually hoping there is some accountability (and still believe there may be).

Strategically, I don't think Obama can telegraph that he'll go after Bush et. al. right now.  It would be too much of a distraction, and runs the risk of rallying the republican base.  On top of that, he doesn't want to make his campaign look like it's about revenge.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 06:51:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (none / 0)

Well for what it's worth.

Nancy Pelosi said no because she said they didn't have the Senate votes. This didn't bother the Legislative Branch when they impeached Pres. Clinton.

Sen. Obama said he wouldn't impeach if he was president cause he didn't want it to look like a witchhunt.

I dunno. Kind of looks like no impeachment. I forget,what %of our tax dollars goes to pay a pres and vice pres 's retirement?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say,"no impeachment".


by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:01:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (none / 0)

I, for one, have been disappointed that there hasn't been a bigger push for impeachment.  If we can't impeach Bush, what the fuck can we impeach for?!?

That said, there are ways to hold those responsible for criminal actions apart from impeachment.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:06:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

Could we at least try to get elected first?


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 07:15:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

Yes, you're right, of course.


by skohayes on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 07:47:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

I meant no slight, just really, really hoping this is the time.  It's been a long trek between drinks.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 07:50:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (none / 0)

Well you might want to ask Al Gore what effect a pending impeachment has on a presidential candidate.  Democrats should be going after Bush and Chaney now. Kind of like the Republicans went after Pres. Clinton. Only candidate that I'd say would go after Bush after the 08 election would be Sen. Clinton. I don't think she'd care too much if it was called a witch hunt.

Naw I'm thinking Sen. Obama will do the same thing that Rep Pelosi is doing.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:05:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (none / 0)

I don't think HRC's position on impeachment would be any different right now.  Kucinich on the other hand...


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:08:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

Go Dennis.  And look at the tremendous groundswell of support for his candidacy...  Sigh.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:11:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (none / 0)

Gotta love Kucinich.  I'd follow that guy through the gates of hell.  He know's he can't win, and just keeps pushing.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:21:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

I am ideologically aligned with him and Feinstein more than most other Democrats, but win the presidency?  Maybe in a parallel universe, but not here, not now.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:43:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I HOPE that's a typo. (none / 0)




Democratic Candidate, US Senate, Wisconsin 2012
by benmasel on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 11:11:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I HOPE that's a typo. (none / 0)

Yeah, sort of a brain burp.


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 01:30:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

Honestly, do you think we are currently playing by the same rules as the Republicans were in 1998?  With a restless, intemperate media and the evangelical Right near it's zenith?  I'm glad sometimes our nominee has more apparent nous than some of his erstwhile supporters.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:10:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (none / 0)

I do. I'm no political expert though. See to me they need the Impeachment in the house wheither or not the Senate vote is there. If they don't they won't get to issues that I read about here on mydd. I read on blog that talked about negligent contractors. This was resulting in faulty workmanship that had resulted in a soldiers death. That's wrong. I would think that Impeachment inquiries would bring the negligence of the war to light.

I don't think if Sen. Obama is saying he won't impeach now he will impeach after elected. Do you think that the general populace will be more likely to impeach or just say hey Bush is out of office so who cares now? Besides Sen. Obama would be busy setting up his administration the first year to be bogged down with impeachment.

That's just what I really feel.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:53:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

Well, I agree that the likelihood of impeachment proceedings against any members of the Bush administration are pretty slim after Obama's inauguration, but similarly I'm guessing that they are suicidal to our aspirations during the election campaign.

There are other ways to exact our revenge, however, through normal legal channels.  Indictments on a variety of charges are not out of the question, especially if whistle-blowers felt comfortable in a new political environment.  I noticed recently that some of our EU allies have indicated they are considering war crimes indictments against lower level operatives in the Bush administration whom they feel had lied about the Iraq situation prior to the invasion, but they will not be proceeding until after January 2009.  They will not be alone in seeking redress, I'm guessing.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 09:15:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

LOL Shaun. I hope that they'll investigate the allegations of neglegence by contractors in Iraq. Not as revenge but as a way to keep troops from unnecessary harm and to save tax payer dollars.

take care and again happy holidays.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 02:07:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (none / 0)

Frankly I would be disappointed if there weren't a mini-tsunami of whistle-blowers emergent after the inauguration.  Let's sick Waxman, Chairman of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, on them, I like his style.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 06:07:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 2)

YEs, we could start by kicking out the people in charge of the administration and the ones who got us into this mess (some of which would happen to be McCain's foreing policy advisers/staff).

So anyone voting for McCAin is just going to reward the dunces that got us in this mess.  (p.s. I ma not accusing you of voting for McCain)


Democrat for the democratic nominee
by KLRinLA on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 07:38:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (none / 0)

It's clear that many people here don't understand that Obama didn't have to do anything about FISA.  The original FISA Act requiring the President to go to the court within 48 hours was completely protecting the nation.  The FISA Act Obama refers to when saying it expired was the one passed by the dimwitted Democratic Congress last August just before recess.

Want to really do something: don't send Obama any more money and inform his campaign of your intention to put pressure on the Democratic Party to nominate someone else for the Presidency.  The Constitution is that important!


by orionwest on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 07:05:04 PM EST

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (none / 0)

Uhhh, no.  The expiration of the extension is irrelevant at this point.  It's the telecom immunity that's at issue now.

What's clear is that many people here seek only to bring down Obama.  Are you suggesting that Hillary's (or any other candidate outside of Kucinich) actions would be different given the same situation?

Let's see what they (all) do on the 8th.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 07:13:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

Maybe Kucinich should be the nominee he's the only Democrat with any kind of courage to do something!


by orionwest on Fri Jul 04, 2008 at 06:16:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Constitution is that important, so (2.00 / 1)

get realistic in your choice of tactics.




Democratic Candidate, US Senate, Wisconsin 2012
by benmasel on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 11:13:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

Yet another diary worthy of the recommended list, IMHO.  Beats me why these thoughtful diaries of yours aren't hitting it big time.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 07:17:24 PM EST

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (none / 0)

Thanks Shaun.  It's all about the title.

If I repost as:  OBAMA IZ DEVIL, I'd prolly get more traction, eh?

;)


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 07:21:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

I doubt it, heh.  Can't see why Ready to Rumble? didn't do the trick.  Try embedding images next time?  Hard to say, there seems to still be a lot of post-primary angst still getting all the attention around here.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 07:29:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (none / 0)

That's for sure.  I did nice, clean diary on the disaster that's Iraq awhile back.  Put a huge table in it.  Took forever to make that work in html.  

Result?  Poof.  Five comments total, and I think three of them were mine (sigh).  Eh, oh well.  As long as one person reads, and gets something from it, it's still worth the while, right?


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 07:35:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

Take heart and consider that there are probably a significantly larger number of people reading and lurking than commenting.  Every little bit helps and if you are particularly disheartened try googling some keywords from your past diaries and seeing how high they come up on the hit-list.  In can be quite a pleasant surprise sometimes.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 07:40:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (none / 0)

Eh, I don't seek popularity.  More than anything, I hope to provoke some discussion, or highlight a different facet of things.

Plus, my last two diaries have been therapeutic.  Recently, in an attempt to relive a little of my youth with my 11 year old son, I wiped out skateboarding. Totally mangled my wrist.

I'm a musician, and find most of my stress relief in playing guitar.  With that sidelined for the time being, I thought I'd try to increase/improve my diary output.

:)


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 07:51:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

Keep up the good work.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 07:57:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

This is lead up to holiday weekend. Maybe not so many people posting. Alot maybe on the road. BUT will perk up I'm betting tomorrow afternoon or early tomorrow morning. Definately bet it will perk up on Saturday/Sunday.

Hugs and Happy 3rd of July.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:09:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (none / 0)

Have a great holiday.  :)


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:11:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

Thanks fogiv. Thanks much. :D


by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:33:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

Happy 3rd of July to you too.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:12:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

Thanks Shaun.

I appreciate that much.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:32:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (2.00 / 1)

Rec list, good work


Democrat for the democratic nominee
by KLRinLA on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 07:40:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (none / 0)

Much obliged!


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 07:44:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (none / 0)

Criminal action?  

Good luck with that.

If this bill passes, you can take it to the bankt that Bush will hand out pre-emptive blanket pardons to all the telcos.

He doesn't care whether that "admits" anything or not, as long as none of his clan are ever held accountable.


by Perfektion on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:07:30 PM EST

Re: FISA: Ready to Rumble? (none / 0)

That's just it.  Maybe this could be the road to holding Bush accountable.  Telecoms only aided and abetted.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:09:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The ONLY (none / 0)

change that ever needed to happen with FISA, was to add in the new technologies. Such as, cell phones, email, etc.

That is IT! No other changes needed to be made from the original FISA.


Washington Woman
theocracywatch.org
EENR Blog
by kevin22262 on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:48:32 PM EST

How about (none / 0)

our vote? If it does not count, none of what we want matters.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/7/3/19141 /89591
Washington Woman
theocracywatch.org
EENR Blog
by kevin22262 on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 08:56:58 PM EST

The Rumble's tomorrow. (2.00 / 1)

Track down YOUR Senator, and give 'em the business.

Bottom line, Obama's one vote in 100.




Democratic Candidate, US Senate, Wisconsin 2012
by benmasel on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 11:15:57 PM EST


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